So last weekend were the Dota 2 Starladder finals in Kiev. I didn't get to see quite as much of it as I wanted to, since it was a family weekend with the folks and siblings. However, Saturday night my sister and I found ourselves watching the Dota 2 girl finals live on stage, as they were apparently scheduled in between the regular matches.
So at first we were like, woo! Girls! Go girls! Cause everyone knows girls have a pretty hard (or one could argue, easy) time in the online world, what with most guys convinced they are somehow less skilled in gaming due to their gender. Yet here were some skilled Dota 2 playing girls, representing the much neglected female community within Dota 2. Exciting stuff. I was thinking this might finally prove to people that there is no need to be sexist towards girls in gaming, we can be skilled! We can own stuff! See? Gender makes no difference!
However, despite the decidedly girly play style that was being shown, and despite the abundance of pauses and the fact one girl even made a phone call excitedly relaying their rampage (yes we all saw what you did there!) what really blew my hopes out the window was this.
The whole idea about gender equality is to create an environment in which males and females are treated equally. For the gaming industry this mainly means guys stop flaming girls based on their gender, and stop the use of phrases like "Y U NO IN KITCHEN LOL". The thing is though, in order for girls to be taken seriously in the gaming scene, it is important that they conduct themselves professionally, or at least, as professional as the current guy pro teams. What they should definitely avoid, is using their gender to gain fame/popularity/sponsors. Which is exactly what's happening on above mentioned picture.
It does not make any sense to argue against sexism when this picture is obviously asking for it. I'm not saying these girls are against sexism, (obviously it appears they aren't) but one can hope.
So, to be honest, I am disappointed. Not only did the girls refuse to set a good example of female Dota 2 players, they in fact did the exact opposite. They basically showed the community that judging them by their looks is totally okay and even encouraged.
So to set the record straight, I'm pretty sure I speak for a bunch of girls out there that this is not the way we want to be perceived. The whole idea that the girl league should be kept separate is questionable to begin with, and trust me, there are girls out there who enjoy playing Dota 2 at a high level and DO consider half-naked photo shoots to be over the top ridiculous.
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How/when did they release this photo? Was it just a general advertisement prior to the tournament? Something they released during the tournement to gain some new "fans"?
ReplyDeleteSomeone stalked them in russian facebook analogue, so no one was releasing it. It's kinda silly thing to do to tie the tourney and some online photos in one blog post, making a point out of it.
DeleteIts like, you girl, go do something serious and then we'll find some of your nude/drunk pics to completely destroy the effort.
The problem is that these girls use their body to advertise their team. There's a myriad of (NSFW) pictures where they're fondling their breasts or playing Dota2 topless.
DeleteThese aren't a few random pictures from a party that are being published, these pictures are their 'official' advertisement.
What anonymous the second said.. this is the main thing that in my opinion puts the wrong message out there.
DeleteShould probably tag that that photo is NSFW. @_@
DeleteI completely agree with what you say Tigrish. I actually thought before the event began and I started paying attention that it might be an okay idea to have a female-only tourney if only to shine a light on talented players who happen to be female and deserve the spotlight but may be getting overlooked perhaps or/and could use a platform like this.
ReplyDeleteBut the photos, and later the behaviour of Tobi and v1lat in the cast made me feel disillusioned.
Girl teams are not the only ones, who do advertisment with their body!
ReplyDeletehttp://i.imgur.com/e04F2.jpg
Lewd NA'VI Boys calendar 2013 shipping out soon!
Is that an offical picture to promote Na'Vi as a team or is it a drunk picture?, and I think we both know the answer and in that also the difference in it.
Deletethe thing is,those girls are no pros, nor do they want to be pro.
ReplyDeleteThey want to be dota's hot chicks and therefore post half naked pictures of them.
i dont see a problem there tbh.
Another question is if a tournament like SL should rely on them instead of getting 5 girls who take this serious. But yeah
Well first off about the photo's and them just wanting attention, sure it's half nude photo's but movie stars, athletes in professional sports around the world both female and male have participated in modeling clothed, half nude, and even nude. So I don't see how this automatically makes them attention hungry people. Is it possible all they want is attention, obviously yes and if that's what they truly want and are only doing it for then that sucks but no one can say for certain.
ReplyDeleteAll I seen when I watched the women's finals for Star Ladder season 3 was just two teams of girls that wanted to play some Dota and were very excited when doing so.
None of anything that they did during the tournament or before with those photo's means they were asking for the casters to make disgusting sexist comments about them over a louder speaker with other females in the crowd and watching at home.
First off, I did not explicitly say anything about them wanting attention right off the bat, I am only worried about the part where they seek fame/exposure though the use of their bodies. I admit it was the photo(s) that shocked me more than anything these girls did on stage. Maybe it was just unfortunate for them that these photos surfaced right around their match, but as someone else posted above, I'm pretty sure they were used for promotional purposes, and with a clan name like "owned by" ... one can wonder.
DeleteDon't forget the terrible commentary by Tobi and Vilad
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteSorry Cameron, due to a glitch I accidentally deleted your post and can't seem to find it again.. feel free to re-state whatever it was you replied.
DeleteIsn't this just a crudely photoshopped pic (like some individuals photoshop a model hugging them in their Facebook profile)? It sure looks like it.
ReplyDeleteMight have been, if there hadn't been more: http://vk.com/album-30768375_150334442
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOh, so it IS real indeed. In that case, I totally agree with:
Delete>What they should definitely avoid, is using their gender to gain fame/popularity/sponsors.
GURRL GAMER stereotype is annoying.
*grammar fixes*
You also need to mention that, in the interview with LaNa (link at the end) she actually encouraged the sexism towards the girls in DotA. She basically said that yes, girls are inferior in gaming and they wont take it as serious as boys because they are not that competitive. I was exited because finally, i could show my girlfriend (she plays Dota that girls can play in the high ranks too, and they dont have to be this chubby-nerd like females every one thinks when you say "Dota player girl". So much dissapointment.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caFmPaNTdC0&feature=g-user-u
Hey Ri! Somehow I missed that you have a blog .)
ReplyDeleteMy initial reaction was similar.. (even though i felt it was weird to make a separate "girl division")
It was horrible, it felt like they made it just for publicity and laughs (seriously! instead of serious players they picked a team that poses in underwear better than it plays the game...) and Tobi/Vilat commentary was just too much
Now girls in dota esports will be taken even less seriously than they were before..
I'm seriously pissed right now...
Id bang the shit out of the second one though...no lies
ReplyDeleteHaving completely separate teams for girls inherently sets a different and lower standard for players. It's mitigated a little bit if they compete against all teams. But, it still sets a lower level of expectations in tournaments for them, and this propogates the idea that they aren't as good for being girls.
ReplyDeleteHaving completely separate tournaments is basically a flat out statement that they aren't as good and can't compete with normal teams
Well, there are no gender restrictions to join any Dota tournament or team. No one is against girls participating against male players.
DeleteIs having women only tournaments for chess undermining women in chess....
DeleteDoes having separate leagues for women's basketball undermine women in basketball?
Physical and mental differences are not some delusion of society... Women arnt forced to compete with men in physical events because physical differences makes it totally uneven....recognizing this is not an assault on women in sports, and makes sense given safety concerns.
Video games will also have disadvantage to certain groups based on biology. Women have slower fast twitch reactions when it comes to handeye coordination...much as Asians also have a slight edge in this department over non Asians. Recognizing this and creating leagues where players can compete in a more even physical setting does not undermine women in exports. The possiblity of injury due to uneven physical conditions is negligible in exports or chess... So no problem in allowing the physically less able to compete with those more physically able.
I'd love too see a women step on the mound and their out 100 mph fastballs.... But it's delusional to think that's gonna happen.
Would love to see women compete at the top level of exports.... But if that happens it will be inspite of real physical limitations
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteBlah Blah Blah
ReplyDeleteEveryone prefers to look at good looking people, no matter the gender. Get over it.
Agreed, also like the Nietzsche (or Enigma :D) quote on your banner.
ReplyDeleteSo basically you're saying that if they can play, they shouldn't make photo sessions or be models or whatever or be whores and post tits online. I'm freakin sexist and this post offends me so fuckin much, you are the sexist here. Nobody will give them prices for being naked, nobody will congratulate their play for being naked. Either they can play or not, that's it. I think you're mad, tough, because you play way way way worse than them, you're maybe a total shit stain on dota, is that it?
ReplyDeleteMy only concern is the image this inflicts on female gamers all around. However, in the end this is just my opinion, and no doubt there's going to be people with different opinions (hey, you!)
DeleteSo if you don't like it feel free to leave :)
A problem that could be addressed in various ways. The first problem being the natural tendancy to identify with those more like them. Teaching people to healthily examine these tendancies and develop protections against this through building self identity and self esteem is the only way to help people resist bad feels cause someone they identify with did something. This approach helps people build stronger and more resiliency.
DeleteThe other way is to tackle the issue from the top, by focusing on *Valid* feelings from witnesses as they identify with things done by and to those like them. The problem with this approach is that it is simply impossible to ever eliminate a significant portion of problematic interactions. Focusing on this tactic will fail to protect from incidences, and ignoring the first will leave individuals weak and at the mercy of the world.
While I find it entirely reasonable if women may feel objectified when seeing other women objectified. What is not reasonable, or even ethical, is to not point out at all times that the responsibility and culpability for those feelings and dealing with them is 100% on each individual.
The problem you face is that its a lot easier for a female team to get attention by taking their clothes off.
ReplyDeleteTo gain acknowledgement from talent is a lot harder but more worthwhile. There are better female players but they didnt get sponsored to go to Kiev. Which isnt surprising considering that the mens teams are also struggling with that. US teams pulled out again and Mouz had to beg theGDstudio for financial assistance.
I had to laugh though when i saw that one of the teams FB page had pictures of designer kitchens on it. Sorry.
I'm fine with girl only tournaments as long as no money is involved. If they wanna play for money they should have to go the same way as everyone else. My team got 1 female player and we get no special treatment. (Same goes for countryspecific tournaments btw. If you can attend a tournament you should be allowed to.)
ReplyDeleteThis ignores completely the reality of physical differences....
DeleteYour statement is akin to saying women's chess shouldn't be allowed to have any prize pools... Result of which would be loss of virtually all women chess players professionally...
Should the WNBA become an intermural league?
Should featherweight fighters not have purses because they don't fight heavyweight....
i smell jelousy
ReplyDeleteThere is no sexism here. There are no gender restrictions in any of the tournaments. All female or mixed-gender teams can participate in any of the tournaments. The reason we don't see them is that they don't win enough to qualify.
ReplyDeleteStarladder, for reasons of publicity, I'm sure, did a women's final for the entertainment. What the girls do with their sponsorship AND GET PAID FOR shouldn't be anyone's concern.
When it comes down to it, the DotA community has always had popularity primarily based on merit(skill) or infamy(manners) and has almost nothing to do with gender.
I just read this, so late but yet so good. Im a male, but i was so pissed about so much bullshit. I was already mad because there is "female teams", like why do we need male and female teams? This is a computer game where physical differences just doesn't matter at all, why can't we have mixed teams?
ReplyDeleteThe game itself was very sad to see, but i didn't knew about this pictures and stuff. Why people would do this? i thought we where much better than all this, shame on the commentators, shame on the girls, and shame on the whole stuff...
Hope we get better than this, sorry for the random comment and my poor english, but im mad and i had to say it somewhere.
Women have slower fast twitch muscles and will never face a level field against men for that reason alone. Not saying will never have a competitive woman in DOTA @ international level... But it will be inspite of overcoming real physical differences....
Delete